Peyton Manning has won two Super Bowls. He's been named MVP five times and First-Team All-Pro on seven occasions. He's one of the greatest quarterbacks of all-time.
But he's under scrutiny for two separate off-the-field issues.
On SportsTalk Live's "But Seriously" on Tuesday night, Jim Kozimor, Ray Ratto and Tim Kawakami discussed the recent allegations against Manning, and how they may affect his legacy...
Ratto: "It's important because one of the things that comes with athletic achievement is the glossing over of your image. And at a time when other athletes basically are hounded or grilled for not meeting whatever standard we apply to it, Peyton Manning has essentially been given a pass. And it becomes a debate about how we judge celebrity, how we determine fame, and we how we determine what America likes.
"So in and of itself, this is not a fireworks display, but it's an indication of something that I've always thought which is: We don't know these athletes, and every time we say 'so and so is a great human being or a human exemplar,' we have no idea. And we have too many examples of this not to take it to heart ... it's the idea that when we put athletes or celebrities up on a pedestal, we don't mind giving it a shake and where's the tipping point? Right now, we're in the middle of that ... and that's why I think it does matter."
Kawakami: "Does this become a big deal if Peyton Manning didn't just win the Super Bowl? If he's not Peyton Manning, if he doesn't do all these commercials? Probably not because we're not that interested in it. But as you climb larger levels of fame, certain things stick to you because you're just that famous ... clearly, there was an incident between those two ... there's enough things to talk about.
"The larger picture I think is maybe, maybe there's a meanness to Peyton Manning; there's a little bit of a bully in some of this ... He has great power, he has great fame, he's in all these commercials ... he flexes this power with a certain amount of meanness ... my instinctual belief is that there's a meanness here out of Peyton Manning. There is some sort of intimidation factor, where he has done some things where he regrets -- he has said he regrets these things -- and he tries to erase them or intimidate people into not believing they happened."
Ratto: "Peyton Manning's image does not allow for bullying. And the way they attacked the HGH story bordered on bullying. And when it was exposed as such, I think his high-powered PR people figured out this isn't going well. It's a different tact. It's all strategic. It's all, 'What's gonna play in the public?' And really the HGH thing really hasn't got mileage yet because they haven't been able to connect the box to Manning himself yet.
"But this is about hearts and minds. And ultimately, what you got here, is Peyton Manning has built an image that is not unlike Lance Armstrong's ... it's 'I want to be perceived as a greatly beloved figure,' and it's hard to pull that off when you have cracks in the foundation. That's what this is about. This is about Peyton Manning's legacy in the public, not about him as a football player. It's about how you perceive him going forward. And that's the issue here.
"The fact that he fought so hard in the early HGH accusation, and has backed away since, is either an indication that they think the HGH allegations won't fly and they don't have to deal with it anymore. Or they felt the public backlash from it because the public does remember when one of their sainted heroes takes a fall. And yeah, Lance Armstrong is the first name you think of. So I think they're trying to be less crude about it, and a bit more subtle."
Kawakami: "I think they do feel under siege a little bit ... he might retire, too by the way. That's all part of this ... there's a lot of different levels to this one because it's in the law -- lawsuits, settlements, money has exchanged hands. There have been judgments. The HGH thing was whether they were delivered to his wife, those were discussion points ... This is legal stuff here now ... he can't argue against some things that people are accusing him of, if they indeed happened or they are documented somewhere that we don't know about."
Ratto: "Those people that are equally invested in Manning's image, above and beyond the family itself -- it's a lot of media people who have basically exalted him for decades. It's the National Football League which wants to hold him up as an example. So there are a lot of moving parts here just in terms of how Manning's image must be defended. The Tennessee stuff is troubling because there is now an active lawsuit against the university, and he's mentioned ... but it really still is not much about the legalities as it is how Peyton Manning plays to the America that buys pizza, to the America that buys Buick's. And is going to look upon him in his retirement as what can kind of guy? And it's very important to him, which is why this is important."
Kawakami: "And remember, he's gonna want to do something after his career and it isn't gonna be fish every day. He's not gonna be Brett Favre ... he's gonna want to run a team, he's gonna want to run a company, he's gonna do television. Something where he's gonna be out front and people are gonna be paying money because he's out front, because of leadership qualities, which he does have in many degrees, but if you start chipping away at that -- HGH, what happened at Tennessee -- maybe there is a company, or two, or three or 500 that aren't that interested in him ... these are issues that get in the way of that.
"Now, a lot of it can be forgotten. Kobe Bryant, this is no longer even discussed with him, what happened to him in Colorado. But when you're Peyton Manning and you're facing these issues, you don't know where this is gonna go. And you don't know what corporate titans are gonna think of you in five years and 10 years and 15 years."
Ratto: "There may be other things in Manning's past that he wants to keep quiet. There's a lot at risk here for him. He's got all the money that you could possibly eat, but if he wants to be thought of as "that guy" all the way until his death, this has to be sort of contained and managed. And maybe it can't be.
"Lance Armstrong thought he had this nailed. Steve Garvey thought he had it nailed. And truthfully, you never know. If you got other stuff, you have to think someone is gonna find out eventually. And that's what he's got to be concerned about..."
